Thursday, 6 September 2012


Over here in the the smoky, sultry and seedy corner of the interwebz that is the Manosphere, Francis Begbie and co like to think that, if a person is wrong on a particular matter, a conclusion can be met through talking, looking at the facts, and debating. Sometimes though, that isn't enough. Sometimes, you get the whole shaming boys thing, telling them to man up, and come across as a major paedo in the process.The aforementioned is hardly the embodiment of masculinity either; on the contrary, he looks like the snake oil salesman from the Red Dead Redemption games.
[Image: 579833_10151030625630407_1291271095_n.jpg]
the guy who wrote the thing
Mr Marston!

Welcome, to Paedogeddon!
Guys, we have a problem. We are letting way too many boys get into adulthood without actually becoming men. We're seeing more and more adult males around who are not men.They're as old as men, but they have the mentality of nine-year-old boys. They're causing a lot of trouble, both in general and for the game industry specifically. We need to deal with this.Why us? Because it's our job to see to it that a boy becomes a man, and we are failing.When we were little boys we all went through a stage when we said we hated girls. Girls had "cooties." They were silly and frilly and everything that a boy isn't supposed to be. We got into this stage at about age seven, and we left it again at maybe 10 or 11. Then puberty hit and, if we were straight, we actively wanted the company of girls. We wanted to "go with" them, date them, and eventually we wanted to fall in love and live with one, maybe for the rest of our lives. That's the way heterosexual boys are supposed to mature, unless they become monks.My point is, you're supposed to leave that phase of hating girls behind. Straight or gay, you're supposed to grow the hell up.
That's the way it's supposed to happen I guess. Kind of hard to do when qualities that are predominantly male and everything associated with the masculinity memeplex is demonised, and everything feminine is angelic and perfect. There's also two things you have to distinguish here. One, do we hate girls, or do we hate girls that are just fucking awful human beings? Very few men intrinsically hate women. If every woman was like the ones I met in Poznan, there would be a lot less antagonism between the sexes.
Men have more power than women: financially, politically, and physically. What distinguishes a real man from a boy is that a man takes responsibility for his actions and does not abuse this power. If you don't treat women with courtesy and respect –- if you're still stuck in that "I hate girls" phase –- then no matter what age you are, you are a boy and not entitled to the privileges of adulthood.
The apex fallacy argument. Compare the average woman to the CEO of a pharmaceutical company, and you're done! No need to take into account that women are not interested in politics to the same degree, that they drop out of the labour force earlier to have children, that high paying STEM jobs bore the shit out of them and so the do something more people related, but those are facts. Again, I'll treat a woman with respect...when she acts like a person I can respect.
  • If you want to have some private little club for males only –- like keeping women out of your favorite shooter games –- you're not a man, you're an insecure little boy. A grown-up man has no problem being in the company of women. He knows he's a man.
  • If you freak out when a girl or a woman beats you in a game, you're not a man, you're a nine-year-old boy. A man doesn't need to beat a woman to know he's a man. A man is strong enough to take defeat in a fair game from anybody and move on.
  • If your masculinity depends on some imaginary superiority over women, then you don't actually have any. Manliness comes from within, and not at the expense of others.
  • And if you threaten or abuse women, verbally or physically, you are not a man. You're a particularly nasty specimen of boy.
  • When this puerile mentality is combined with the physical strength and sexual aggressiveness of an older boy or an adult male, it goes beyond bad manners. It's threatening and anti-social, and if those boys are permitted to congregate together and support each other, it becomes actively dangerous. Yes, even online.
1: Relationships between men often work on competition, the pleasure of friendship for its own sake, and shared ideas. An attractive women comes along, and the attraction alone means it is impossible to merely be friends with her. One of the reasons men play games online is that it's one of the few places where guys can hang around with just guys these days. That doesn't make me an insecure little boy bro. That makes me a normal man. Not to mention that I can't get my intellectual hit through the average lassie. I need lads for that. Fuck me, you're using shaming language for one of the most important components of male friendship.

2: I agree with this. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

3: An important component of masculinity is competition. You win, at the expense of others. Read the classics, Homer. Page 1 on how to be a man. Also, you said earlier that "Men have more power than women: financially, politically, and physically." So, is it imaginary, or does it actually exist?

4: If a woman threatens a man like this, she gets what she deserves. (b) Stop the evil boys congregating! But don't worry! The average, sexually frustrated Inbetweener teenager who enjoys lesbian porn and video games is a danger to society, (ok, maybe he is, in the way that you've decreased economic ability, but that's not his fault per sae) while the feminist that teaches dialectical materialism and blank slate baloney to university students isn't. Good show old chap.
What the average gamer looks like.
Of course, I don't mean all boys are like this. Most of them get out of the cootie phase quickly and grow up just fine. But far too many don't. If we don't do something about these permanent nine-year-olds pretty soon, they're going to start having boys of their own who will be just as bad if not worse, and life will not be worth living. Life is already not worth living on Xbox Live Chat.
Life probably isn't worth living if you're spending most of it on Xbox Live Chat, to be frank. Especially when nine year old boys are getting pregnant.
In addition to the harm they do to women –- our mothers, our sisters, our daughters -– these full-grown juveniles harm us, too. A boy who refuses to grow up has lousy social skills, a short attention span, and a poor attitude to work. Furthermore, all men –- that's you and me, bro –- get the blame for their bad behavior. And we deserve it, because we've been sitting on our butts for too long. We let them be bullies online and get away with it.
They have lousy social skills because school is boring, because they do poorly with women, because they are bullied in school,  because they are spat on for being men, because their parents just divorced because of shits like you, because they're anhedonic over excessive porn use and because they have top hat tits for Dads. You're not going for the origin, you're attacking the symptoms. That's in the extreme cases. An awful lot of the time it's just guys blowing off steam. But you already said that that's a bad thing. Can't have your cake and eat it.
Some of you might think it's sexist that I'm dumping this problem on us men. It isn't; it's just pragmatic. Women can not solve this problem. A boy who hates girls and women simply isn't going to pay attention to a woman's opinion. The only people who can ensure that boys are taught, or if necessary forced, to grow up into men are other men.
Let's be clear about something else. This is not a political issue. This is not a subject for debate, any more than whether your son is allowed to swear at his mother or molest his sister is a subject for debate. There is no "other point of view." The real-world analogy is not to social issues but to violent crime. Muggers don't get to have a point of view.
Women can certainly make the problem better, by being decent human beings. Hypergamy is hypergamy and you'll never change that, but when a guy gets a "fuck off ye prick" rejection, what do you think that will do to him? Nothing eats a man's confidence up more than being landed with the fat girl or his hand. Nothing. Women can definitely do something about that.  Other point of view translates to "don't debate what I said, nanananana leader!"
First, we need to serve as positive examples. With the very little boys, we need to guide them gently but firmly out of the cootie phase. To the impressionable teenagers, we must demonstrate how a man behaves and how he doesn't. Be the change you want to see. Use your real name and your real picture online, to show that you are a man who stands behind his words. Of course, you can't prove your name is real, but it doesn't matter. If you consistently behave with integrity online, the message will get across.
1: Mr Employer comes along, types my name into google. He sees that I've written all this stuff about tapping dat Dublin 4 ass, and simply refuses to hire me. Last time I checked the job market is not doing well either. But it doesn't matter because I was being a man about it.
Secondly, we men need to stand up for courtesy and decency online. We can't just treat this as a problem for women (or blacks, or gays, or anybody else the juvenile bullies have in their sights). Tell them and their friends that their behavior is not acceptable, that real men don't agree with them, that they are in the minority. Say these words into your headset: "I'm disappointed in you. I thought you were a man, not a whiny, insecure little boy." Don't argue or engage with them. Never answer their questions or remarks, just repeat your disgust and disapproval. Assume the absolute moral superiority to which you are entitled over a bully or a criminal.
2: Haha, imagine saying this online. "FOOK OFF YE WRINKLY AUL SHITE!" Hehe. 
Finally, we need to put a stop to this behavior. It's time for us to force the permanent nine-year-olds to grow up or get out of our games and forums. It's not enough just to mute them. We need to build the infrastructure that precludes this kind of behavior entirely -– Club Penguin has already done it for children -– or failing that, we have to make the bullies pay a price for their behavior. Appealing to their better nature won't work; bullies have none. We do not request, we do not debate, we demand and we punish.
3: Wow, this is sounding 1984ish already. What do you suggest?
 Mockery. In 1993 50 Ku Klux Klansmen marched through Austin, Texas. Five thousand anti-Klan protestors turned up to jeer at them. Best of all, several hundred lined the parade route and mooned the Klan in waves. The media ate it up, and the Klan looked ridiculous. The hurt that they wanted to cause was met not with anger but with derision. The juvenile delinquents are just like the Klan in 1993: anonymous in their high-tech bedsheets, and threatening, but in fact, a minority. Let's use our superior numbers and metaphorically moon the boys who can't behave. They're social inadequates, immature losers. Let's tell them so, loud and clear, in front of their friends.
How ironic. You've spent the whole article talking about how we should be a man about it, but one of your suggestions is to mock the other person? But I thought that was unmanly! I also like the fact that you are comparing nerdy introverted teenagers who possibly need to get out of the house a bit more, with white nationalist headbangers. Superior numbers lol! Typical feminist only applies to meeeeeeeeeee.  
Shut them up. The right to speak in a public forum should be limited to those who don't abuse it. James Portnow suggested this one in his Extra Credits video on harassment. Anyone who persistently abuses others gets automatically muted to all players. The only players who can hear them are those who choose to unmute them. Or another of James' suggestions: New users don't even get the right to talk. They have to earn it, and they keep it only so long as they behave themselves. This means a player can't just create a new account to start spewing filth again if they've been auto-muted. Build these features into your games.
Take away their means. If you're the father of a boy who behaves like this online, make it abundantly clear to him that it is unmanly and unacceptable, then deny him the opportunity to do it further. We don't let nine-year-olds misuse tools to hurt other people. Take away his cell phone, his console and his computer. He can learn to behave like a man, or he can turn in his homework in longhand like a child.
Anonymity is a privilege, not a right. Anonymity is a double-edged sword. A limited number of people need it in certain circumstances: children, crime victims, whistleblowers, people discussing their medical conditions, political dissidents in repressive regimes. But those people normally don't misuse their anonymity to abuse others; they're protecting themselves from abuse. I think the default setting in all online forums that are not intended for people at risk should require real names. After a user has demonstrated that they are a grown-up, then offer them the privilege of using a pseudonym. And take it away forever if they misuse it. I haven't used a nickname for years except in one place where all the readers know who I am anyway. Has it made me more careful about what I say? You bet. Is that a good thing? Damn right it is.
Impose punishments that are genuinely painful. This suggestion is extreme, but I feel it's both viable and effective. To play subscription-based or pay-as-you-go ("free-to-play-but-not-really") games, most players need to register a credit card with the game's provider. Include a condition in the terms of service that entitles the provider to levy extra charges for bad behavior. Charge $5 for the first infraction and double it for each subsequent one. This isn't all that unusual; if you smoke in a non-smoking hotel room, you are typically subject to a whopping extra charge for being a jerk.
To be honest, I kind of agree with him here, in that if somebody has a forum, even if you are one hundred percent correct, that person is more than entitled to ban you. You have a problem with that pussy? Then start up your own forum. This article is different though. It's basically a mangina shaming kids for using crass language online. The thing is is that, men and teenagers talk like this anyway, and the more extreme stuff that warrants actually giving a shit, is due to people LIKE the writer. Not to mention that a lot of hosts you play, will actually ban you from typing out a word anyway, and if companies were about to go Chuck Norris on censorship, they might lose a bit of the moolah. Seriously, what games is this guy playing?


You says: Fuck this, videogame time! 
Now I'm going to address some objections from the very juvenile delinquents I've been talking about if any of them have read this far. 

"But this is part of gamer culture! It's always been like this!" No, it is not. I've been gaming for over 40 years, and it has not always been like this. Yours is a nasty little subculture that arrived with anonymous online gaming, and we're going to wipe it out.
You've been gaming for 40 years? Where's the Neil Armstrong playstation? 
"What's the big deal? It's harmless banter. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the game." To start with, it's our game, not yours, and we get to decide what's acceptable behavior. You meet our standards or you get out. Apart from that, nothing that is done with intent to cause hurt is harmless. The online abuse I have seen goes way beyond banter. Threats are not harmless, they are criminal acts. 
No, it isn't your game. It's EA's or whoever fucking makes the game. If they want to mess around with people online, it's their prerogative, not yours.  They set the standards, not you. 
"This is just political correctness." Invoking "political correctness" is nothing but code for "I wanna be an asshole and get away with it." I'll give you a politically-incorrect response, if you like: fuck that. It's time to man up. You don't get to be an asshole and get away with it. 
No, the problem is, is how terrible men are and how men should man up. And yes, political correctness does shut down free speech, believe it or not. There are plenty of men hating women sites, full of immature content. You're posting on one!  Fair is fair after all! Have a look round Plenty of Fish recently? 
"You're just being a White Knight and trying to suck up to women." I don't need to suck up to women, thanks; unlike you, I don't have a problem with them, because I'm a grown man. 
 Manning up sure has its benefits. 

"Women are always getting special privileges." Freedom from bullying is a right, not a privilege, and anyway, that's bullshit. Males are the dominant sex in almost every single activity on the planet. The only areas that we do not rule are dirty, underpaid jobs like nursing and teaching. Do you want to swap? I didn't think so.
This is strange. Why does he say "we do not rule?" Is it a typo? Does he think of himself as a woman? Is it actually written by a femcunt masquerading as a bloke to show that "both men and women" believe in, and like, totally get feminism? It would make sense, this article is full of strange details, like forgetting to mention that there are systems in place on videogame forums to ban people, the gaming 40 years thing, and the womanly turn of phrase. As for addressing the point? Well, the vast majority of homeless people, addicts, low earners, IQs more than one standard deviation below the norm, people with crippling disabilities, victims of wars, suicides are men. What's your point exactly?
"It's hypocrisy. How come they get women-only clubs and we don't get men-only clubs?" Because they're set up for different reasons, that's why. Male-only spaces are about excluding women from power, and making little boys whose balls evidently haven't dropped feel special. Female-only spaces are about creating a place where they are safe from vermin. 

"But there's misandry too!" Oh, and that entitles you to be a running sore on the ass of the game community? Two wrongs don't make a right.. I'll worry about misandry when large numbers of male players are being hounded out of games with abuse and threats of violence. If a few women are bigoted against men, you only have to look in the mirror to find out why.
1: Ok, I've changed my mind. This post was definitely written by a woman. I've just been trolled.

2: I'll worry about misandy when large numbers are involved. Fine. By that logic accidents on farms isn't a problem because it happens to so few people every year. Fact of the matter is, even if its only a small amount, it is a problem, and people should be safer working on farms.
 "Free speech!" The oldest and worst excuse for being a jerk there is. First, you have no right to free speech in privately-owned spaces. Zero. Our house, our rules. Second, with freedom comes the responsibility not to abuse it. People who won't use their freedoms responsibly get them taken away. And if you don't clean up your act, that will be you.
We've been through this. You don't own it, the person who owns the space does.
It's time to stand up. If you're a writer, blogger, or forum moderator, please write your own piece spreading the message, or at least link to this one. I also encourage you to visit Gamers Against Bigotry, sign the pledge, and share it.Use your heavy man's hand in the online spaces where you go –- and especially the ones you control –- to demand courtesy and punish abuse. Don't just mute them. Report them, block them, ban them, use every weapon you have. (They may try to report us in return. That won't work. If you always behave with integrity, it will be clear who's in the right.)
Let's stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the women we love, and work with, and game with, and say, "We're with you. And we're going to win."
Listen, lassie, the reason I posted this was cause this piece of shit apparently got 100000 hits in about a day. So, here's my two cents.

1: Who gives a fuck? There are a million things more important than what someone says online. Get over it. Guys talk like this, believe it or not.

2: The stuff that might possibly freak you out? The 4chan forever alone shite? Well, that's what happens when you have single mothers, feminism, a lack of jobs and the ones that are left are shite, poor role models, pornography and few people knowing how bad it can be for you, and all that other fun stuff! Enjoy the decline, LASSIE!  


  1. This guy sure is obsessed about BEING A MAN, isn't he? Man this, man that, man up, be a man, etc.

    The funny part is it's posted on a website dedicated to telling men to NOT be men. Or that 'being a man' is just a social construct, etc.

    Since the value systems of people like this mean shit all to me, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

  2. "The funny part is it's posted on a website dedicated to telling men to NOT be men. Or that 'being a man' is just a social construct, etc."

    Haha, true.

    I think it would be a great idea if somebody wrote the equivalent but for women. Not that it necessarily has to make sense, but just to make a few femcunts writhe, saying "Wow. Just. Wow."

  3. > "But this is part of gamer culture! It's always been like this!" No, it is not. I've been gaming for over 40 years, and it has not always been like this. Yours is a nasty little subculture that arrived with anonymous online gaming, and we're going to wipe it out.

    >You've been gaming for 40 years? Where's the Neil Armstrong playstation?

    He's probably referring to hex-and-chit boardgames, which have been around in various forms since before H.G.Wells wrote "Little Wars."

    Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson were part of an established gaming subculture 40 years ago. It just didn't use computers.

  4. Anon

    I didn't know that, quite informative.